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Americain Question, Feu de Foret


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JohnElias
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 05:25 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Bonjour, j'etude le francais au lycee, mais mon francais est tres penible... il y a plusieurs années. Je suis Americain et un sapeur pompier en California. Je combats le feu de foret. Recemment je lis 'Sapeur Pompier J'Ecoute" et je veux dit avec vous.

Like I said, my French is terrible so I'll try English and hope that somebody else can speak it. I can actually read French okay but I don't know how to speak it, so if you prefer to reply in French that is okay.

I work as a seasonal (summer) forest firefighter in California. We do everything a regular firefighter does, but our focus is on the forest fires.

What I want to know is how you guys fight forest fires. I've heard it is very different from how we fight forest fires in California, and I want to know how you do it over there.

Merci.
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seneque
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 08:55 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Bonjour JohnElias et welcome on the forum,

Puisque tu sais lire le français je te répondrai dans cette langue.

La première chose à savoir c'est que les forêts françaises n'ont rien à voir avec les forêts américaines.
Les surfaces sont beaucoup plus petites et la forêt est aménagée pour pouvoir circuler à des endroits statégiques.
En matière de lutte nous sommes généralement organisés en groupe de 4 camions tout-terrain de 3000-4000 litres avec un véhicule de commandement. Le nombre de groupes augmente en fonction des besoins.

De plus, nous avons des avions bombardiers d'eau ou de retardant (produit qui ralenti le feu) de petite taille très maniables par rapport au relief.

Tu trouveras ici des supports de formation qui pourront te donner une idée plus précise.
N'hésite pas si tu as des questions précises.

a+

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axeman
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 10:38 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Hello,

I was in California a few months ago for an exchange about wildland fires between CalFire and the French firefighting officers academy. The main differences we noticed are about :
- French firefighters are not in charge of fire prevention as in California (no fire safety education, no volunteers in prevention, ...). We do not use prescribed burnings.
- French firefighters are not in charge of law enforcement about fires, then they do not investigate.
- we do not use bulldozers.
- we do not have inmate fire crews.
- Californian and French fire engines are very different. Our wildfire trucks are dedicated for wildfires and can be driven on very rough terrain.
- we use quite the same airplanes but we also use firefighting hydroplanes. In France, airplanes do not belong to fire departments but to the french State.
- our operation management method is very different from ICS.
-...

If you are interested in differences between Californian firefighting and French firefighting, the batallion chief from BTU in charge of our trip may help you: he spent a few days with us at the French firefighting officers academy during a wildand fire training. Contact me by private message and I will say to you how to contact him.


Bonjour,

J'étais en Californie il y a quelques mois pour un échange sur les forêts de végétation entre CalFire (service d'incendie de l'état de Californie) et l'ENSOSP. Les principales différences que nous avons remarquées sont :
- les pompiers français ne font pas de "prévention"(au sens américain du terme) incendie (pas d'éducation des populations au risque FDF, pas de bénévoles pour cette éducation des population). Nous n'utilisons pas de contre feux (brûlages dirigés).
- les pompiers français n'ont pas de pouvoir de police judiciaire sur les feux, ils ne mènent d'équêtes.
- nous n'utilisons pas de bulldozers (technique du coupe feu très utilisée la-bas).
- nous n'avons d'équipes de prisonniers (CalFire et l'administration pénitiaire (CDCR) ont un programme commun pour utiliser des prisonniers sur FDF pour leur faire faire des coupes feu).
- les véhicules Californiens et Français sont très différents, les notres sont spécifiques au FDF et ont des bonnes capacités de franchissement (les leurs plus des hors chemin que des tout terrain).
- nous utilisons les mêmes avions (Trackers) mais nous utilisons également des hydravions. En France, ils n'appartiennent aux services d'incendie mais à l'état Français.
- nos outils de gestion opérationnelle sont très différents du ICS (équivalent du GOC Californien).

Si tu es intéressé par les différences entre la lutte contre le FDF en France et en Californie, le chef de bataillon qui était en charge de notre séjour pourrait peut-être t'aide : il a passé quelques jours à l'ENSOSP sur une formation FDF2. Contacte-moi en MP pour que je dise comment le contacter.


Dernière édition par axeman le 30 Aoû 2011, 19:09; édité 2 fois
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 14:27 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

bonjour axeman

ça te dérangerais de mettre la traduction en français, car même si j ai compris les grosses lignes, certains termes m'échappent...

merci smile_coolman

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JohnElias
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 19:33 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Axeman, I know the battalion chief from BTU. He taught a class I was in a few months ago and he brought up the exchange with CalFire and your academy. The class was not a wildland class though and he did not get into details about the differences. I didn't get a chance to ask him about that after the class.

You mention that France doesn't use dozers or inmate fire crews. Do you have hand crews or hotshot crews? Anything like that? We also have smokejumpers and firefighters who rappel out of helicopters. Do you guys have anything similar?

The battalion chief from BTU also said that you don't have fire shelters. He said that you retreated to your engine if the fire got bad. He said that your engines are better at protecting themselves than our engines. How does that work?

Also, I have a Gallet F2 helmet. It is better than the wildland helmets we use. The battalion chief from BTU showed off the F1 helmet you gave him during the exchange. That's a really cool helmet and the chief really likes it. He said that if he ruled the world, we'd all be wearing that helmet. I do not really like the F1 because it does not look like an American firefighter's helmet, but it is a good design. I really like the F2.

Thank you for your response.
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JohnElias
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 20:17 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Seneque, merci pour ton reponse.

If I read you correctly, you say that your forests are different than ours. They are smaller and have better roads than ours do. A few years ago, I worked on a 20 person hand crew (no engine, no water, just shovels, chainsaws, and axes) and one time we marched for 2 days just to reach a fire. This is something that would not happen in France, no?

Nous avons une organisation similaire a ton "groupe de 4 camions tout-terrain de 3000-4000 litres avec un véhicule de commandement". Nous appelons cela un "strike team". C'est un groupe de 5 camions tout-terrain de 500 gallons (2000 litres) avec un vehicule commandement. 3000-4000 litres est beaucoup d'eau.

Also, I work in an area known as "Seneca" which is the English spelling of your name. The hospital is named "Seneca Hospital", we have a "Seneca Road", and if we get a fire in a certain area near my station it'll be called the "Seneca Fire".
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 20:33 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Hello,

Here is a link where you'll see how works our 4WD Trucks autoprotection

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9rs5s_ccf4000_auto

130 gallons a least of water are reserved for this system. There is also a system of breathable air inside the truck's cabin.

If you're trap by fire, the best way to stay alive is to run inside the truck turn on the autoprotection and wait the fire passed away. Of course the truck will be seriously damaged, but the men inside have a chance to say alive.

Here is an other link, where you'll off road capacity of our CCF (Forest fire Truck)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ibix_cod2-formation-sdis-03_tech

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Dernière édition par Casper49 le 30 Aoû 2011, 20:34; édité 1 fois
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JohnElias
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 20:34 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Axeman, the chief from BTU also told us that French firefighters are very athletic. He described the exercises you have to perform and they seemed insane. I was very impressed. Did he accurately describe that? What sort of physical capability is mandated in the French fire service?

In America, a new firefighter gets a job with a fire department usually about the time of his 25th birthday. He'll spend the rest of his life working for that fire department. The wildland world is a little different, but even with CalFire the idea is that you get a permanent job around 25 years old and work with CalFire the rest of your life. My understanding is that France is very different. Most young firefighters will find a different profession later in life. They get a job while they're young and strong (maybe just 20 years old), but most do not become officers and end up doing a completely different job 10 years later. Some young firefighters become officers and make a career out of it, but most do not. Is that correct?
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 20:54 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

To answer about career, there is 3 kinds of fire-fighter in France

1/ Volonteer (most of french firefigters are volonteer)

They usually live in country-side, or small town, they have their own job, and leave their job in case of intervention to rescue or fire fighting. They are not necessary very atletic. It depends of their way of life.

2/ Professional

In medium and big city. They are civilian but firefighter is their job. They start between 18 and 29 years old. And thay can stay firegther all their career. Some of them can become officer if they want and if they succeed the exam.
Sport is a part of our training. About 2 hours of sport / 24 hours duty

3/ Military (in Paris, Marseille and Civilian Protection)

They are hired quite young, about 18 or 20 years old. They usually work 5 or 15 years. After they do an other job or they can become professionnal firefighter.

The level of sport is high. And military rigour is annoying. That's why few of them want to do more than 15 years.

Hope I answered your question.
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JohnElias
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 21:02 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Casper49 a écrit:
Hello,

Here is a link where you'll see how works our 4WD Trucks autoprotection

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9rs5s_ccf4000_auto

130 gallons a least of water are reserved for this system. There is also a system of breathable air inside the truck's cabin.

If you're trap by fire, the best way to stay alive is to run inside the truck turn on the autoprotection and wait the fire passed away. Of course the truck will be seriously damaged, but the men inside have a chance to say alive.


Fantastique! Thanks for that! What exactly happens with autoprotection? I was confused about how the water was used. The chief from BTU described it as a "sprinkler" and I imagined a big sprinkler on top of the fire truck spraying water in every direction trying to put out the fire. The video you gave me makes sense. You're using the water to cool off the engine so it doesn't burn. Great idea! My fire department has burnt up several engines over the past decade when the fire got too hot. I'm certain the engines would have been damaged, but something like your autoprotection system would probably have kept those engines from burning up. Cool idea.

Our last resort system in the engine is this: we cover the windows with fire shelters (reflective aluminum blankets that block radiant heat) and then we put on the air tanks we use for structural firefighting. We stay in the engine until fire conditions in the engine are worse than fire conditions outside (if the fire truck starts to burn), and then we run outside and use our fire shelters to protect us. We always keep at least 100 gallons in the tank to protect the engine, but using that 100 gallons requires a firefighter outside the engine with a hose. We have nothing like your autoprotection system. Very cool idea!

Citation:
Here is an other link, where you'll off road capacity of our CCF (Forest fire Truck)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ibix_cod2-formation-sdis-03_tech


At the start I believed "my fire truck could do that too" but later on your fire trucks performed some stunts that I would never try. Very impressive. We have fire trucks that can do what yours did, but most can not pull that off and mine http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2462/3885059695_c5c661cdd3.jpg could not do that. Would a French firefighter on a real fire drive his fire truck like that? Some of those moves look like they risk getting the fire truck trapped. Most of our fire trucks can handle roads you would drive a all-terrain truck down, but this video shows some pretty impressive off-road driving. Are all of your wildland trucks like this?
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 21:15 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Yes all of our wildland trucks are like this. Our drivers must have a special "off-road" licence to are allowed to drive like this.

Of course in real fire we don't play to run on such difficult roads. but sometime to find the fire we need to.

Most of CCF have also a water canon on the roof. If your water tank is full you can also use this canon to make a kind of water cupola over the truck.

Of course the water canon is remote controled from the driving cabin.

You can't see it on the first video but wheels are aslo protected.

If we don't have time to run inside the truck, we also have personnal fireproof blanket.

Usually wildland trucks have also a big identifcation number painted on the roof in order to be seen from an airplan. In case of emergency you can ask the plain to drop his water on your truck.
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axeman
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 21:28 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

JohnElias a écrit:
Axeman, I know the battalion chief from BTU. He taught a class I was in a few months ago and he brought up the exchange with CalFire and your academy. The class was not a wildland class though and he did not get into details about the differences. I didn't get a chance to ask him about that after the class.

You mention that France doesn't use dozers or inmate fire crews. Do you have hand crews or hotshot crews? Anything like that? We also have smokejumpers and firefighters who rappel out of helicopters. Do you guys have anything similar?

The battalion chief from BTU also said that you don't have fire shelters. He said that you retreated to your engine if the fire got bad. He said that your engines are better at protecting themselves than our engines. How does that work?

Also, I have a Gallet F2 helmet. It is better than the wildland helmets we use. The battalion chief from BTU showed off the F1 helmet you gave him during the exchange. That's a really cool helmet and the chief really likes it. He said that if he ruled the world, we'd all be wearing that helmet. I do not really like the F1 because it does not look like an American firefighter's helmet, but it is a good design. I really like the F2.

Thank you for your response.




JohnElias,
It is a real pity that you could not talk with him because he knows well the French system.
We do not have smokejumpers but some fire departments (the France is divided in 100 areas called “departement” and each departement has its own fire department) have special teams to be brought by helicopter on the fire. They are setting down in steep areas only. In France, as Seneque said, the forests are crossed by a lot of roads, then our method is to go as close as possible to the fire.
Concerning the safety, the recent wildland fire engines have emergency system. The one Mike told to you is a system composed by a pipe with spray nozzles around the cab. In case of emergency, you just have to push a button in the cab and the water from the engine tank is sprayed on the cab and tires. Most of our wildland engines are equipped with a breathing system and the cab is pressurized to avoid smokes to get into.
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 21:28 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Casper49 a écrit:
Hope I answered your question.


Ton reponse est parfaite. Just to make sure I comprehend, by "sport" you mean "physical training", no? In English "sport" generally refers to games like football, soccer, or baseball. I assume you mean physical training (push-ups, pull-ups, weight-lifting, etc).

Citation:
To answer about career, there is 3 kinds of fire-fighter in France

1/ Volonteer (most of french firefigters are volonteer)

They usually live in country-side, or small town, they have their own job, and leave their job in case of intervention to rescue or fire fighting. They are not necessary very atletic. It depends of their way of life.


Il est semblable en Amerique.

Citation:
2/ Professional

In medium and big city. They are civilian but firefighter is their job. They start between 18 and 29 years old. And thay can stay firegther all their career. Some of them can become officer if they want and if they succeed the exam.
Sport is a part of our training. About 2 hours of sport / 24 hours duty


This is exactly what I wanted to know. Mon pere est un sapeur-pompier/paramedic. He is not an officer but his position is very prestigious in his department. I want some clarification. Do most young French firefighters who get a job as professional firefighters stay in that job for their entire life? This is the way things are in America and I want to know if it's the same over in your country.

"Sport" (physical training) is a part of our training as well. My department requires at least 1 hour (but usually we train for 2 hours) for every 24 hours of duty. Are the physical requirements for work as a civilian firefighter comparable to what the military jobs in Paris and Marseille require, or are they more comparable to the physical requirements in a city like New York?

Citation:
3/ Military (in Paris, Marseille and Civilian Protection)

They are hired quite young, about 18 or 20 years old. They usually work 5 or 15 years. After they do an other job or they can become professionnal firefighter.

The level of sport is high. And military rigour is annoying. That's why few of them want to do more than 15 years.


The military firefighting in France is something that amazes me. It's tremendously different than what we have in the United States. When American firefighters think about French firefighters, this is what they think about. America has a few military firefighters (who handle fires on military bases), but their work is similar to what civilian firefighters do. They're not like French military firefighters. From what I understand, they're not expected to be capable of performing "sport" like French military firefighters. They're almost identical to civilian firefighters in America, except for their employer. (Most military firefighters don't fight much fire, military bases tend to be pretty safe).

Do most military firefighters who join at 20 years old find a career in firefighting, or do most end up doing work that is not related to fire for the rest of their lives?
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JohnElias
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 21:43 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

Casper49 a écrit:
Most of CCF have also a water canon on the roof. If your water tank is full you can also use this canon to make a kind of water cupola over the truck.

Of course the water canon is remote controled from the driving cabin.


The idea is to keep the fire truck from getting too hot, right? Use the water to cool off the fire truck?

Citation:
If we don't have time to run inside the truck, we also have personnal fireproof blanket.


What is this fireproof blanket like? In America it's common for firefighters to be very distant from their fire trucks. As I said before, I once marched for two days just to get to a fire. We have fire shelters http://www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/newshelt72.pdf that we use if we get trapped by fire. Are your personal fireproof blankets similar to our fire shelters? Do you carry them on you all the time while fighting forest fires?

Citation:
Usually wildland trucks have also a big identifcation number painted on the roof in order to be seen from an airplan. In case of emergency you can ask the plain to drop his water on your truck.
Our wildland trucks are the same.
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axeman
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MessagePosté le: 30 Aoû 2011, 21:48 Répondre en citant Revenir en haut de page

When Casper49 says “sport”, he means physical training even if we make sometimes some sport (in the English meaning).
In France, if you want to become a professional firefighter, you have to pass a selective examination. If you succeed, you can apply in all fire departments in France. But it is quite difficult nowadays because there are more people who succeed to the examination than there are available jobs.
When you have a job as a professional firefighter, you become a king of state employee and then, you will keep your job for your entire life.

Concerning Paris and Marseille, firefighters are military for historical reasons. In these two cities, a big fire (1810 in Paris and in 1938 in Marseille) had not been properly fought by the civilian fire department. To reorganize them and make them more efficient, authorities decided to militarize them. Most of military firefighters become civilian firefighters after a few years in Paris or Marseille.
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